Premise: Fact: over 75% of people outside the US believe that 9/11 was at some level an ‘inside job’. To many people inside the US this is a very distressing fact. The dutch government governing parties have openly referenced to not make any official comment what they did term the ‘severe inconsistencies’ in the 911 story. This topic is not negotiable inside the US, for many reasons. One reason would be the severe trauma of talking about the mere possibility the US government ‘at some level’ may have treated its citizens as public relations mince-meat. Even if not true, the topic is taboo.
So how credible are the arguments in and of itself that 911 was an ‘inside job’ ? Is there, as any detective would say ‘means, motive and opportunity‘? The goal of this discussion is not to tear open old wounds. It may, but it’s not the goal. Likewise the goal is not to endlessly argue ‘yes buts‘. We all know the arguments – buildings don’t collapse vertically in this manner. The various WTC buildings were all, without a shadow of a doubt, subjected to demolition charges some time before september 11, 2001. This has become effectively undeniable. Or is it? But if this is the case, what else may have been pre-planned and anticipated?
These four events:
* Saturday 2 October. 9:30 SLT : “Why do ‘truthers’ believe 9/11 was an ‘inside-job ?”
* Saturday, 2 October, 12:30 SLT : “The Dance of Death”
* Sunday, 3 October, 9:30 SLT: “We Know Best – ‘End Game Realists’ (NeoConservatives of all Stripes)”
* Sunday, 3 October, 12:30 SLT: “How Far Will They Go?”
This is part one a four event special, looking critically at what is happening at the United States in specific, and western democracies in specific. This is a very sensitive topic and griefing during the event will be met with severe consequences. Likewise, while I personally adore harsh language and personal expression, I will have to run a tight ship on this one. Once I say ‘we are done escalating‘ I strongly ask all present to hold their mouth shut for a a minute and cool down. Also note that this is a 4-event weekend with a discourse. Yes, my underlying argument will be the same old discussion about oil depletion, and the consequences of oil depletion. My fear is that we are headed for a state of emergency when it does, and that would mean ‘we can’t afford the luxury of democracy anymore’. Finally, the question will be ‘what alternatives do we have’ ?
Red: 911 was executed by Islamic radicals- by saudi nationals. The attack was a terrorist act conducted or sponsored at least in part by Osama Bin Laden, or by similar-minded people around him. Osama Bin Laden is still alive and at large. The US took appropriate actions against these terrorists, and invading Iraq was necessary to ‘establish order’ in the Middle East. Oil is not a consideration in this. The US government was caught off guard by the attack on 11 september 2001, but that will not ever happen again.
Blue: At the very least the US knew in advance that the attack on the WTC would happen and some people at the highest level of government. If so they ‘let it happen‘ and ‘prepared for it‘. At the very least some in the government had all WTC buildings collapse through demolition charges, knowing that at the time of collapse people in the buildings were still alive. Worst cause scenario – and all options remain on the table – is that the highest levels of US government orchestrated this attack intentionally, as a shock to the system, from beginning to end. While used as pretext this means that going into Iraq and Afghanistan was one of the most severe cases of military aggression since WW2. The reasons for all of this would be grounded in the fact that we will be out of oil very soon, and all of modern society will transition to a drastically lower level of affluence. If the US government let ‘911’ happen it is strictly in this context.
Time/Date: Saterday 3 October, 9:30 SLT, about 60-90 minutes.
Location : Delinquent 213, 200, 742, SLURL
[09:25] You: The adventure is starting ! 🙂
[09:25] darcon Xue: Hello loves 🙂
[09:25] You: Hoi hoi darcon
[09:28] You: Hello people
[09:28] You: welcome to the regular weekly Red versus Blue event
[09:28] darcon Xue: Hello Khannea love 🙂
[09:28] You: Can the people in IRC hear me?
[09:29] You: Hah 🙂
[09:29] You: The basic premoses of the formuila for RvB you can find here http://khanneasuntzu.com/2010/09/04/red-versus-blue/
[09:29] You: I will be pushing gently for a debating style where people defend either a blue position, or a red position
[09:30] You: But you are well urged to assimilate a green, pink, purple, orange position
[09:30] You: Or by default stay Neutral, or ‘grey’
[09:30] You: First things first – who is oiffended by frank talk about the 911 incident?
[09:30] You: No one!?
[09:30] Metafire Horsley: whinnys!
[09:30] You: That would be something 🙂
[09:31] darcon Xue: 🙂
[09:31] Milton Broome: HI
[09:31] You: Today’s event I make absolutely no claim of being objective
[09:31] You: Heya
[09:31] You: I personally suspect that the US government had foreknowledge of an attack against the WTC, and I am fairly sure there were demolition charges in all WTC buildings.
[09:32] You: So if you conclude i will be having an agenda, I say, yes
[09:32] You: I have an agenda
[09:32] You: But it might not be what you conclude
[09:32] You: Details on todays event you can find here : http://khanneasuntzu.com/2010/09/27/red-versus-blue-why-do-truthers-believe-911-was-an-inside-job/
[09:33] You: So, who here has seen the movie “loose change’ ?
[09:34] Celeborn Longoria: not I
[09:34] Giulio: cui prodest?
[09:34] Metafire Horsley: Loose change was interesting. But some of the stuff in that video was not really convincing.
[09:34] You: Uhum
[09:34] Milton Broome: May I ask if it’s worth me seting up ‘voice’, or are we on text?
[09:34] You: Ok
[09:34] Giulio: that was latin for “who benefits?”
[09:35] You: I strongly disfavor an event format using voice
[09:35] You: Maybe in a few years
[09:35] Bryce Galbraith: Hi all
[09:35] Giulio: Let’s remember Marx
[09:35] You: 🙂
[09:35] Giulio: things happen for 2 reasons
[09:35] You: Heya Bryce
[09:35] You: Heya Rhiannon
[09:35] Giulio: 1 money
[09:35] Giulio: 2 money
[09:35] Bryce Galbraith: Hi Rhi 🙂
[09:36] Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Bryce
[09:36] Rhiannon Dragoone: HiKhannea!
[09:36] Naxos Mycron is Online
[09:36] Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Farve, Meta, Celeborn, Snow, Arisia, Tahuti
[09:36] Celeborn Longoria waves
[09:36] Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Milton
[09:36] Snow OHare: 🙂
[09:36] Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Darcon; I’m mad at you
[09:36] darcon Xue: why love?
[09:36] darcon Xue: 🙂
[09:36] Milton Broome: Hi
[09:37] Rhiannon Dragoone: For griefing my discussion last night, why do you think?
[09:38] darcon Xue: you asked for it 🙂
[09:38] darcon Xue: 🙂
[09:38] Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Naxos
[09:39] Rhiannon Dragoone: hi TimerRefresh!
[09:39] TimeRefresh Irelund: oh my!
[09:39] Naxos Mycron: hello 😉 !
[09:39] TimeRefresh Irelund: hi! i didnt expect you to be here ! hi!
[09:40] Naxos Mycron: O.O
[09:40] Naxos Mycron: lol
[09:40] TimeRefresh Irelund thinks: i got a singularity institute message.
[09:40] You: 🙂
[09:41] You: Who is pretty sure the 9/11 attack was conducted strictly by dastardly muslim radicals?
[09:41] Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Aristocrates!
[09:42] Naxos Mycron: not me
[09:42] You: No sit down anywhere time
[09:42] Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, let’s have some fun and all say, no!
[09:42] You: Come up here
[09:42] Aristocrates Aristocrat: hello to all
[09:42] TimeRefresh Irelund: i dont see anyone so i appologise if i set on…
[09:42] Bryce Galbraith: Hi Aristocrates
[09:42] You: Time, There are stairs leading up
[09:43] Aristocrates Aristocrat: Hi Bryce
[09:43] Giulio: How do I choose? I am on IRC
[09:43] You: Dont worry G, the Red versus Blue is a rhetorical trick
[09:43] Rhiannon Dragoone: Time, i’ve done that; usually get booted off. ::giggles::
[09:44] You: Postulating two statements allows me to juxtapose two extreme positions.
[09:44] Giulio: I am violet (half red half blue)
[09:44] Rhiannon Dragoone: I personally think it was, but the Bush administration took advantge of it to shift power to the government
[09:44] Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Seren!
[09:45] You: Why would the Bush administration have such a motive? At the cost of thousands of people?
[09:45] Celeborn Longoria blinks, isnt the motive blatant? isn’t it history repeating itself?
[09:46] You: Whats your opinion, Celeborn?
[09:46] You: Hoi sipples 🙂
[09:46] Celeborn Longoria: the illusion of terrorism, is a sure fire way to create weekend warrior patriotism
[09:46] You: Ahhh ok
[09:46] Celeborn Longoria: not much else needs to be said on that matter.
[09:46] Giulio: Nero (Roman Emperor). The Reichstag.
[09:46] Serendipity Seraph: ¨The motivation was oil and control set up before the shit hits the fan
[09:46] Milton Broome: What happens if we conclude that there is not enough evidence to make a reliable decision on? Do we resort to saying, “I dunno” but popular opinion sways this way or that and I feel X amount of pressure to sit on this side or that of the debate?
[09:47] Serendipity Seraph: You do not understand power lust
[09:47] Rhiannon Dragoone: Celebron, i agree; i think of the Reichstag burning, but even then, Lord Bullock didn’t think there was any eveidence the Nazi’s actually did it, but that Hitler took advantage. I think the same goes for 9/11
[09:47] Celeborn Longoria: nods
[09:47] Rhiannon Dragoone: There was a memo on Bush’s desk about it, but i’m sure they were hundreds
[09:47] You: But that would make, if even remotely true, the US government completely and totally unreliable?
[09:47] Serendipity Seraph: hey all
[09:47] Celeborn Longoria: it is the precurser for all wars, regardless of who was responsible
[09:47] Celeborn Longoria: it doesnt matter ,9/11 , it only matters why, not who
[09:47] Naxos Mycron: i think they also wanted to reordenate the world economies after the falle of the Berlin wall
[09:47] Serendipity Seraph: 1) buildings that collapsed when they shousd not have
[09:48] Serendipity Seraph: 2) buildinds that collapse in free fall in own footprint
[09:48] Serendipity Seraph: 3) no standard procedure for high jacked planes
[09:48] Serendipity Seraph: 4) building 7
[09:48] Serendipity Seraph: 5) pentagon most protected airspace hit over hour after we knew of attack
[09:49] Tahuti Mortmagus: It doesn’t have to be the Government itself behind it. The government relies on intelligence and most of that comes from CIA and higher echelons of the forces
[09:49] Rhiannon Dragoone: Naxos, yeah, Bush Sr, Cheney and Condi Rice had that as a goal, for sure
[09:49] Serendipity Seraph: 6) disappearing whatever actually hit pentagon
[09:49] You: I assert that I think it is effectively certain the WTC buildings were prepared for controlled demolition, weeks in advance.
[09:49] Serendipity Seraph: 7) long long time before any official investigation that didn’t even address most questions
[09:50] Serendipity Seraph: if you believe all that was some Muslims with box cutters there is no hope for you
[09:50] Tahuti Mortmagus: I would say they were prepared for demolition years in advance
[09:50] You: 🙂
[09:50] Naxos Mycron: i think that the causes of it are not as interesting than the consequences
[09:50] Serendipity Seraph: not years. previous weekend buildings were closed completely for 3 days.
[09:50] Milton Broome: I’d agree with Naxos.
[09:50] Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, i once heard a saying that incompetence, once it rises to a certain level, is indistinguisable from cnspoiracy; why don’t we accept the official story that the government fucked up?
[09:51] Serendipity Seraph: the cause, the event, was what was used to justify the consequences
[09:51] Celeborn Longoria: I am sorry, I have to depart :(((
[09:51] Giulio: Remember plausible deniability, sometimes things are organized at lower levels without any knowledge in upper levels
[09:51] Celeborn Longoria: people be well.
[09:51] Naxos Mycron: what about Burroghts ‘Towers open fire’ resonance? i mean, there`s clearly a symbolic play there
[09:51] Serendipity Seraph: and that my own government would do such is very very important
[09:51] Tahuti Mortmagus: Anyone with their head on would realise that if some catastrophe happened to them they would have to be brought down quickly in a controlled way rather than let them topple sideways
[09:51] You: I need to confess you all… I send a reminder of this event to owners several conservative, republican and nationalist sims and goups in SL. No one showed. In fact only trhing that happened is that I am now banned from not just those sims,also sims that have anything to do with US government – and the US military.
[09:51] Giulio: in 24 (Jack Bauer) it is a constant pattern
[09:52] Giulio: omg
[09:52] Naxos Mycron: Hello Giulio 😉
[09:52] Rhiannon Dragoone: Wow; khannea, ur not winning; i’ve only been banned from three sims
[09:52] TimeRefresh Irelund: lol
[09:52] Rhiannon Dragoone: And only one philosophy one
[09:52] Serendipity Seraph: sorry, but this took planning to happen. not incompetence
[09:53] Serendipity Seraph: if it was incompetence a lot of job should have been lost at the very least
[09:53] Metafire Horsley: What about planned incompetence on the side of security? *g*
[09:53] You: Could the Bush administration be knowing things that made organizing (or letting slip through) this incident a wise course of action? Could the WTC buildings be one giant omellette?
[09:53] Rhiannon Dragoone: Meta, of good point. :: waves at him::
[09:53] Serendipity Seraph: security which was under control of a relative of Bush it turns out?
[09:54] Serendipity Seraph: no, not incompetence. next.
[09:54] Rhiannon Dragoone: Seren, oh Bush practiced Cronyism; he was aslomst as bad as Jackson in that respect
[09:56] Gerry Susanowa is Offline
[09:56] Serendipity Seraph: incompetence out. cronyism not per se relevant. Any one think the official story was the truth here?
[09:56] You: Hasn’t something suspiciously similar happen in an apartment complex in Moscow, btw?
[09:57] You: So what kind of governments do we find ourselves leading us in this day and age? And why can such entities gain power?
[09:57] Rhiannon Dragoone: Khannea, oh, ur not implying the Illuminati, are you?
[09:58] You: No, I am implying a sick cynical culture of government that thinks people are eggs and they want omelettes
[09:58] Serendipity Seraph: How can we expect much better if almost noone understands freedom or considers it much more important that a bunch of political promises to be taken care of?
[09:59] Farv Hallison: what political promises?
[09:59] Rhiannon Dragoone: Governments never understand freedom, and always try to expand their power; we almost lost the Constitution cuz of it; doesn’t matter why
[10:00] Farv Hallison: why would any american want the icon destroyed?
[10:00] You: Let me rephrase this – if this is anywhere near real, and it looks like it is, the first step would be convincting rational people. Oddly enough even rather smart media people keep saying it was a terrorist strike.
[10:00] Rhiannon Dragoone: I think its almost moot at this point, we had two wars, a concentration camp and expanded gov powers; we should be addressing how to correct that, not dwell on how it happened; the government will always find a pretext
[10:00] You: Is there a chance enough people can be made to see the rather grim facts? And if so then what?
[10:00] Serendipity Seraph: social security, welfare, old age benefits, jobs, whatever. doesn’t matter. it will be forced from some for your benefit. don’t you worry and don’t look at that evil gnome behind the curtain of the great and all powerful state.
[10:01] Serendipity Seraph: you are the “little people”. theirs to manipulate and control. their puppets and playthings. That was and is the message so many hide from.
[10:01] TimeRefresh Irelund thinks: well this is all pointless, of coures everything at higher levels is out of our control.Ineed to open my mind.
[10:01] Farv Hallison: how does a fake attack give them more power?
[10:01] You: That doesnt make any sense, Serendipity? If these people are so ruthless, why dom’t they simply let the economy collapse and declare a national state of emergency and take over?
[10:02] Serendipity Seraph: are you kidding? “Freedom needs to be decreased to make us safe”!
[10:02] Serendipity Seraph: That was said directly and indirectly over and over
[10:02] TimeRefresh Irelund thinks: Ahhh Haa
[10:02] Rhiannon Dragoone: Farv, oh, come on. It would allow them to “protect” us
[10:03] Serendipity Seraph: We need to fight endless war against terror and take all the profits therefrom.
[10:03] Farv Hallison: They want to keep prosperity for themselves but get rid of the poor people who are justv a drag on the economy.
[10:03] You: Endless wars aren’t profitable. What would be profitable in this is endless taxpayer apathy, serendipity.
[10:03] Rhiannon Dragoone: Seren, i doubt if there really was profits to be made–its more the will to power than greed
[10:03] Serendipity Seraph: what else could justify decreasing freedoms so much and spending so much to put so many boots on the ground in oil territory?
[10:03] You: Milking cows?
[10:03] You: Wage Slaves?
[10:03] Serendipity Seraph: oh, there are profits all right.
[10:04] Farv Hallison: for oil
[10:04] Giulio: I wish to remind everyone that if this chatlog is posted on the web it will be public, searchable etc.
[10:04] Serendipity Seraph: printing presses turned on high to ensure them.
[10:04] Giulio: and that finding out the identities of SL users is quite easy for those who really want to know and are prepared to pay for it
[10:04] You: Yes and I intend to Giulio 🙂
[10:04] Giulio: You are not a US citizen or resident
[10:05] You: Yes
[10:05] Serendipity Seraph: I don’t think it is at all easy, Giulio and I am not that paranoid in any case. I don’t care if people know what I say here. I am a free thinking human being
[10:05] You: I concur
[10:05] Giulio: Come on Seren. Bribe a secretary at LL and find out who everyone is
[10:05] Rhiannon Dragoone makes a note as to Seren’s being a ‘free thinking human being’ to report to her Control
[10:05] You: If anyone wants to be anonimized in a transcript, IM me after the event.
[10:05] Serendipity Seraph: why would I care, Giulio?
[10:06] Naxos Mycron: there`s a visibility factor tha is very importnat, remember that such attack was seen by everyone in the world and then it questions tyhe national sovereignty of every country? ‘who dared to hit me??’
[10:06] Rhiannon Dragoone: Guido, not that easy, but why would that be a problem for any of us?
[10:06] Serendipity Seraph: I wouldn’t be here if I did.
[10:06] Giulio: Good point, just wanted to play uncle
[10:06] You: 🙂
[10:07] Rhiannon Dragoone: Freedom, in any event, take courage to maintain
[10:07] Farv Hallison: Do “they” have a blacklist of people attending this debate?
[10:07] Naxos Mycron: lol
[10:08] Serendipity Seraph: if the State would happily sacrifice thousands for its goals while wrapping itself in the flag and deflecting all blame then what is your conclusion about your safety or the State?
[10:08] Milton Broome: I’m wondering how much of the debate that exists at a ‘them and us’ level os reflected in the insecurities of individuals. Our everyday lives are the most influential things on our opinions and NOT issues of national importance, in my opinion. Many people, I believe, would be more effected by a stranger parking in their place outside their house than in issues of National policy. Perhaps our strong opinions here and elsewhere are governed by our internal and everyday stressors.
[10:08] Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Enki
[10:08] Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Hell!
[10:08] You: I have reason to believe that at high levels of the dutch government, and several european governments, the official 9/11 stoy is NOT taken seriously anymore. Russia has since the event openly LAUGHED at the incident, close to smirking. Why doesn’ anyone do or say anything?
[10:08] Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Willy!
[10:08] Hell Otsuka: Greetings, All.
[10:08] Enki Ishtari: hello
[10:09] Serendipity Seraph: your everyday life is not under your control to a very large degree whenever a bureaucrat decrees otherwise
[10:09] Milton Broome: Apparently it’s important to have an opinion on this.
[10:09] Naxos Mycron: i agree with MIlton, but it still is interesting to know the opinion of others and to actualise what happened
[10:09] Willy Heartsdale: Hello Foolks, sorry to be so late..
[10:09] You: Hoi willy
[10:09] Willy Heartsdale: Is this in voice..?
[10:09] You: Nopes, no voice
[10:09] Serendipity Seraph: no Milton. Not so. I would be very happy to be left to live in peace
[10:09] Serendipity Seraph: that is not the case.
[10:09] You: In two years I expect it will be Wil 🙂
[10:10] Willy Heartsdale: Good, as mine is goofy at the moment..
[10:10] Rhiannon Dragoone: Yeah, sound is pretty unreliable for me too, Willy
[10:10] Serendipity Seraph: do what? nothing to do without going to a dark place the vast majority will not go to and will lynch you if you try to get them to go through.
[10:10] Milton Broome: I think being left to live in peace requires being governed though. And there in lies a problem perhaps.
[10:11] You: I think its a missed opportunity that no one showed up who was adamant defending the official story. In the US what is the opinion on the street on 911?
[10:11] Serendipity Seraph: Even lists I have been on for years and pride themselves on an open mind threaten to throw me everytime I write about this.
[10:11] Farv Hallison: We are worried about jobs now.
[10:12] You: How convenient
[10:12] Serendipity Seraph: the majority say they agree with the official story and put down anyone who sez otherwise as a nutcase with issues
[10:12] Serendipity Seraph: at least that is what I have run into.
[10:12] You: This is not the case outside the US, serendipity
[10:13] Rhiannon Dragoone: Yeah, Seren, me 2; and let’s face it, a lot of the criticism of 9/11 rests on pseudo-science, which doesn’t help matters
[10:13] Serendipity Seraph: actually, no it doesn’t rest on pseudo-science
[10:13] Serendipity Seraph: that is on the side of the official story
[10:14] Hell Otsuka: “best way to hide conspiracy is to make any conspiracy talk look funny” (condensed thought of one external reference
[10:14] Serendipity Seraph: fires that have never ever collapsed a steel frame building of any size collapsed this one. yeah, right.
[10:14] Rhiannon Dragoone: Seren, i’m thinking of the notion that the airplanes couldn’t have imploded the buildigns; and yes, that isn’t relevant to our points here, but it gets blended in ppl’s minds
[10:14] You: I have looked at the evidence and heard a demolitions expert swear, that tyo his knowledge the collapse of all three buildings were the result of controlled demolitions.
[10:14] Serendipity Seraph: They could not have. not possible.
[10:14] You: And he also swears that setting such a demolition up would take weeks, at minimum.
[10:15] Serendipity Seraph: not hot enough fair and implosion is not correct word
[10:15] Enki Ishtari: it was something else
[10:16] Serendipity Seraph: bldg 2 it is obvious most of the fuel burned immediately outside the building as the hit was not as direct and you can see the fireball in the footage
[10:16] Enki Ishtari: you guys ever hears of directed energy weapons?
[10:16] Hell Otsuka: * By the way, another higher thought/question: is there a sufficiently certain method to find out the answer on this topic? As been throughoutly shown, discussion is not the way… ^_^
[10:16] Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, i hear the Ferengi brokered the sale between the Bush Administration and the Klingon Empire
[10:16] You: I know that specialists in the dutch army are extremely clear about this – this was a demolition that was prepared i advance, but likewise talk about this topic is forbidden at CO levels in most european militaries, ‘for some reason’.
[10:16] Enki Ishtari: I suggest you look into Dr. Judy Wood’s work related to 9/11
[10:16] Serendipity Seraph: since most of the physical evidence was disappeared fairly quickly?
[10:17] Giulio: Some imagination folks! ALIENS!
[10:17] Metafire Horsley: For what reason? Fear of economic consequences if the relationship with the US cools down severely?
[10:17] Enki Ishtari: you’re looking the wrong direction if you ask me
[10:18] You: What’s worse, the whole debate on 911 is constantly polluted by these odd whispered irrationalist arguments, from odd sources. This is a well-known strategy contaminating and discrediting any debate called ‘poisoning the well’
[10:18] Enki Ishtari: the 9/11 truth movement was infiltrated
[10:18] Serendipity Seraph: read David Griffin “Debunking 911 Debunking”
[10:18] Enki Ishtari: it leads people to wrong unswers
[10:19] You: So what is the core fundamental motive here? Can it be all about O I L ?
[10:19] Willy Heartsdale: mis information casues frustration & confusing to those who don’t know how to read between the lines..
[10:19] Enki Ishtari: look into directed energy weapons and Dr. Judy Wood’s work r4elated to 9/11
[10:19] Hell Otsuka: K, Power [political] games,
[10:19] You: If so, damn what an evil filth this oil is? Are we all as a society a bunch of heroin addicts?
[10:20] Serendipity Seraph: it is about OIL only in part. The other part was a deep excuse to expand state power as much as some would like whenever they like. The reconditioning of the American people.
[10:20] Hell Otsuka thinks that “war on terrorism”, “war on piracy”, “war on paedophilia”, “war on drugs”, etc. are convenient political hypes.
[10:20] Serendipity Seraph: imho
[10:20] Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, i know the US is developing them; the government has been trying for them since the ’20’s
[10:20] Enki Ishtari: hello?
[10:20] Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Radical!
[10:20] You: I see
[10:20] Radical Soup: Hello
[10:20] You: Hoi soup
[10:20] Giulio: Khannea M O N E Y
[10:20] Giulio: read Marx
[10:21] Hell Otsuka: Also, yes, “level of life addicts”. Interesting to claim it as a basis for consumerism 🙂
[10:21] Lucca Seid: i propose that the US is not a single entity entirely synchronized with the same intentions and 9/11 was indeed an inside job, but by a faction within the US and not the entire political whole
[10:21] Hell Otsuka: Giulio, money isn’t usually an intrinsic value.
[10:21] Ronald Skytower: Thank-you
[10:21] Rhiannon Dragoone: Lucca! I didn’t see you come in. Hi!
[10:21] Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi melvin!
[10:21] Lucca Seid: hi ^^
[10:21] Enki Ishtari: I’ve said what i had to say, if anyone has ears to hear good
[10:22] Radical Soup: Got to go Ron
[10:22] Willy Heartsdale: agree with Lucca
[10:22] Rhiannon Dragoone takes a cue tip, and cleans out her ears
[10:22] You: Money… as in creating electoral conformity and consent? Naomi klein, and ‘shock doctrine’ ?
[10:22] Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, CU, Radical
[10:22] Milton Broome: Good distinction there Lucca.
[10:23] Khannea Suntzu plays with Lucca’s butt
[10:23] Enki Ishtari: does my text appear in the local chat?
[10:23] You: Yes
[10:23] Lucca Seid wiggles and purrs
[10:23] Rhiannon Dragoone: Lucca, yeah, there’s been a history of Black Ops
[10:23] You: Can this be interpreted as ‘societal cancer’ ?
[10:23] Rhiannon Dragoone: Enki, im seeing it
[10:23] Willy Heartsdale: Yes Enki I agree with you about these energy weapons & we need to learn about them for sure..
[10:24] Enki Ishtari: ok, just checking
[10:24] Hell Otsuka: “pathology”, hahah.
[10:24] Willy Heartsdale: I am just catching up to the gist of conversations here, please excuse my tardyness..
[10:24] Ronald Skytower: Same here.
[10:24] You: Enki I also heard about a special kind of fish being launched into the WTC buildings. Red Herrings. They pack quite a punch. And there is also something about goose.
[10:24] Lucca Seid: i am no expert in this matter, but i have a question: would the US recession have happened sooner if not for 9/11? any economically savvy folk around?
[10:25] Ronald Skytower: LOL You mean a “Wild Goose?”
[10:25] You: 🙂
[10:25] Serendipity Seraph: Bush was in on it. His reactions at that school house make no sense otherwise. Cheney and Rummy were in on it
[10:25] Milton Broome: Phoenix?
[10:25] Giulio: @Hell – Money, and power _are_ intrinsic values for individual and societies. Analyze anything in depth, and you find greed for money and power. Individuals and groups are just w
[10:25] Willy Heartsdale: Yes, it would have actually..
[10:25] Serendipity Seraph: It wasn’t exactly that low level
[10:25] Ronald Skytower: Well, I think it was clear we were already recovering economically from 9/11 under W
[10:25] Giulio: ired that way.
[10:25] Enki Ishtari: Khannea, not sure what you mean
[10:25] Ronald Skytower: The problem with our current situation is not 9/11, but socialism
[10:25] Giulio: Basically agree w Lucca
[10:25] You: I have watched that video of Bush’s face in the school. Bush is a liar. I grew up around liars. This man knew.
[10:26] Ronald Skytower: Bush was not a liar
[10:26] Lucca Seid: oooo hiyo Giulio ^-^ *hugs*
[10:26] Ronald Skytower: Sorry
[10:26] Hell Otsuka: Giulio, see “intrinsic” (as in “intrinsic value”).
[10:26] Serendipity Seraph: already recovering??? you mean the fakery of printing money like mad, low low interest rates and a a forced housing boom?
[10:26] Ronald Skytower: You can not tell the truth of a statement by someone by the expression on their face
[10:26] Khannea Suntzu giggles
[10:26] Ronald Skytower: Not possible
[10:26] Rhiannon Dragoone: yeay, we have a defender of the official view here. Ronald, please elaborate. Seriously
[10:26] Willy Heartsdale: we have been in trouble for decades because the minds of the masses have been manipulated for at least that long..
[10:26] Ronald Skytower: No, I’m talking about the unemployment rate at 4.75%
[10:26] Ronald Skytower: Look where it is now
[10:27] Ronald Skytower: For all practicaly purposes triple that.
[10:27] You: Not close to a real rate of 20%?
[10:27] Ronald Skytower: Right
[10:27] Willy Heartsdale: right
[10:27] Serendipity Seraph: look. under a real attack scenaryo with possible threat to leadership he would have been whisked to safety immediately. he was at a pre annouced location for chrissake
[10:27] Ronald Skytower: 20% seems to be more like it to me at this point.
[10:27] Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Peer!
[10:27] Peer Infinity: hi everyone 🙂
[10:27] Rhiannon Dragoone: Seren, always assuming they weren’t surprised by it and stunned into inaction
[10:28] Willy Heartsdale: They knew it was time to go down then cause all the sparklers were in place to bring them down..
[10:28] Ronald Skytower: The real problme with have with the economy at the moment is Keynsian Macroeconomics, that was stated fairly well by VP Biden
[10:28] Ronald Skytower: “We have to spend more money to keep from going backrupt.”
[10:28] Ronald Skytower: Now, that is a bankruptcy of a different source
[10:28] Rhiannon Dragoone: Ronald, yes, that’s part of it, but the bureaucracy is a large part too
[10:28] Ronald Skytower: Oh sure.
[10:29] Enki Ishtari: bye
[10:29] Ronald Skytower: Bureacracy is a bane of civilization.
[10:29] Ronald Skytower: Just ask the Romans
[10:29] Lucca Seid: it is hard to nit pick like that, capitalism as a whole is not a sustainable system, the current recession is not even a “problem” simply an inevitability of sorts i think
[10:29] Milton Broome: Are we talking of the Sept 11 events as a form of Political Reset Button?
[10:29] Ronald Skytower: Of course capitalism is a sustainable system
[10:29] You: I am personally sure that ’employment’, as a societal paradigm, has been dying for a few decades and ever since the 90s real unemployment has been going up by close to a % a year, for MANY reasons. We can never hope to retrain people this fast. It’s impossible. http://www.thelightsinthetunnel.com/
[10:29] Ronald Skytower: it’s been the primary situation for thousands of years really.
[10:30] Ronald Skytower: It’s communism which has imploded.
[10:30] Ronald Skytower: And socialism, and liberalism are indeed following suit.
[10:30] Serendipity Seraph: secret service is highly trained to NOT act stunned
[10:30] Ronald Skytower: It’s obvious frankly.
[10:30] You: I think from now on unemployment in most western nations will go up by a % a year, for clear reasons. We face ourselves in the west in a collapse scenario not much dissimilar to the collapse of the soviet uinion, just years away.
[10:31] You: They didn’t see it coming either
[10:31] Lucca Seid: Ronald, maybe should I change the word “sustainable” for “stable” then?
[10:31] Ronald Skytower: Well, no, it’s a major difference from the collapse of the Soviet Union
[10:31] Willy Heartsdale: And what about the billions in gold bullion that was stated as being removed during the night before.. All that gold now melted down & spread into the industry now on huge prices..
[10:31] Serendipity Seraph: capitalism is very sustainable by definition. what we have is not remotely capitalism. not laissez faire which is what capitalism is.
[10:31] Ronald Skytower: The Soviet model was the reason for the collapse
[10:31] Ronald Skytower: What’s wrong with us – is that we’re trying for some stupid reason to be soviet like.
[10:31] Khannea Suntzu smiles
[10:32] Ronald Skytower: Absolutely Serendipity
[10:32] Ronald Skytower: What we have is not free-market capitalism anymore – and THAT is the main problem, and main point.
[10:32] Rhiannon Dragoone: Ronald, its the convergence theory in practice; the collapse of the Soviet Union made Russis more like the US, and we’re still plunging right along to a command economy
[10:32] melvin OHare: thnx for the url Khannea. 🙂
[10:32] Rhiannon Dragoone: And 9/11 helped that
[10:32] Serendipity Seraph: whenever a big State dies it is looted first. been the pattern throughout history
[10:32] You: Good luck with your faith, Ronald, may it keep you warm.
[10:33] Ronald Skytower: While I agree with the first part of what you said Riannon, 9/11 was incidental to our economic woes currently.
[10:33] Giulio: I am surprised that nobody considers another possibility – that another nation (NOT in the Arab world) may have funded and supported the terrorists
[10:33] Rhiannon Dragoone: Khannea, Ronald isn’t saying anything incompatible with what most of us believe
[10:33] You: I have a spare room serendipity, for a month when you need to flee.
[10:33] Serendipity Seraph: if not for the obvious fact of coming woes 911 would not have been done.
[10:33] Ronald Skytower: It was a major hit true – but we’ve had worse economic problems before than what 9/11 caused.
[10:33] Milton Broome: It was the Lindens!
[10:33] Rhiannon Dragoone: Keynesian economics, bureaurcracry, sovietization of the US is part of what 9/11 is all about
[10:33] Serendipity Seraph: 911 was not the cause
[10:34] Ronald Skytower: Sigh
[10:34] Serendipity Seraph: not even a cause
[10:34] Rhiannon Dragoone: Seren, no its a sympton
[10:34] Ronald Skytower: Unfortunatley – I have to leave also.
[10:34] Serendipity Seraph: it was an excuse
[10:34] You: I attribute different causes, Rhiannon. I have no faith in ‘capitalism’, especially in its current form.
[10:34] Metafire Horsley: That’s an interesting idea, Giulio. But which nation would do that?
[10:34] Ronald Skytower: I’m very sorry, I can’t stay.
[10:34] Rhiannon Dragoone: CU, Ron; thanks for coming
[10:34] Ronald Skytower: But, this has been great so far.
[10:34] You: Israel, Giulio?
[10:34] Ronald Skytower: I’ll have to stop by here more often.
[10:34] Hell Otsuka: Mmmm. Anyone want to try modelling a capitalist system on slightly different (in a specific way) species?
[10:34] Ronald Skytower: BTW – I have a blog
[10:34] Serendipity Seraph: the other nation did not have the power to make 911 happen.
[10:34] You: Link it Ronald
[10:34] Ronald Skytower: http://blog.americanpatriotvalues.com
[10:35] Ronald Skytower: Thanks to all
[10:35] You: Cool thanks
[10:35] Ronald Skytower: Have a good one.
[10:35] Serendipity Seraph: that took complicity in the US and a lot of it.
[10:35] Naxos Mycron: pff
[10:35] Serendipity Seraph: Israel made us do it? 🙂
[10:35] Metafire Horsley: Could some corporation have arranged for 911? And in which way would that make sense?
[10:35] Rhiannon Dragoone: Seren, lmao
[10:36] Serendipity Seraph: no, meta.
[10:36] Giulio: Remember the old cops rule: to find out who did something, find who benefits from it
[10:36] You: The sequel or PART TWO of this event, at 12 o clock SLT !!! >> http://khanneasuntzu.com/2010/09/27/red-versus-blue-the-dance-of-death-democracy-entitlements-populists-and-oil/
[10:36] Giulio: There are many hints on the press and even published papers
[10:36] Serendipity Seraph: and distinguish those that pile on from those with power to make it happen
[10:36] Giulio: I am surprised nobody mentions them
[10:37] Serendipity Seraph: mentions who?
[10:37] You: Hoi hoi Chi 🙂
[10:37] Giulio: Seren: the power is a few hundred millions bucks, undercover agents in the US, good organization and logistics. Every nation has that
[10:38] Chi Aho: Hello, Rhia, Farv, everyone
[10:38] Khannea Suntzu smiles at Giulio
[10:38] Serendipity Seraph: no. it took much more for it to come down as it did and be treated as it was
[10:38] You: Tag team, serendipity? Like all star wrestling?
[10:38] Serendipity Seraph: that would have been exposed pretty quickly.
[10:38] You: Slam dunk?
[10:38] Lucca Seid: The impression that 9/11 was an inside job by itself is something interesting or suspicious i think, why would “they” want us to suspect it was an inside job in the first place, what is the benefit?
[10:39] You: Mad man strategy, in part, Lucca
[10:39] Giulio: Ronald you must feel like an angel in hell 🙂
[10:39] You: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_theory
[10:39] Serendipity Seraph: they believe most will not suspect or even have the nerve to entertain the thought in the US. They have been proven right
[10:39] Naxos Mycron: Lucca, the benefit is to create USA fame as a promoter of terror
[10:39] Milton Broome: Why are there sex balls all over this parcel?
[10:39] Naxos Mycron: lol Milton
[10:39] You: Because I like getting fucked, Milton
[10:39] Giulio: Lucca – then you agree with me, kind of
[10:40] Serendipity Seraph: for decor, Milton? 🙂
[10:40] Milton Broome: I see.
[10:40] Naxos Mycron: LMAO
[10:40] Milton Broome: Thank you for the explanation. I see the venue is multi purpose then?
[10:40] You: Uhuh yes
[10:41] Peer Infinity: 🙂
[10:41] Rhiannon Dragoone: Lucca, well, as the government has factions, maybe one faction wants to discredit the other
[10:41] Lucca Seid: i proposed a bukkake pool in the middle but it did not work =/
[10:41] You: Also I run a business here >> http://ksempyrean.wordpress.com/
[10:42] Rhiannon Dragoone: Khannea, mad man strategy?
[10:42] You: Its in the corner, Lucca, a statement in the blue area strongly suggesting that red sucks.
[10:42] Serendipity Seraph: I begged and begged various factions to counteract the terrorism war drum. Nada.
[10:42] Serendipity Seraph: this is not a red vs blue issue in the political sense
[10:42] You: Yes Rhiannon. A cold war strategy, occasionally associated with some neoconservatives, akin to playing
[10:42] You: chicken
[10:42] melvin OHare: red vs. blue like republican vs. democrat. 🙂
[10:42] Rhiannon Dragoone: Seren, well, did you ask them nicely? Sometimes it takes a little sugar
[10:43] Rhiannon Dragoone: Khannea, i’m not following it, at least by that name
[10:43] You: Red versus Blue like Red Ball versys Blue ball?
[10:43] Hell Otsuka: Melvin, “colored politics” [q] (ref. lesswrong.com)
[10:43] You: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_theory
[10:43] Serendipity Seraph: I asked every way I could think of except with a lot of money sugar I don’t have
[10:43] Hell Otsuka: But also “red team vs blue team” (ref. sports)
[10:43] melvin OHare: thanks hell I’ll check it out.
[10:43] Hell Otsuka: “Blue team hit the fraglimit!…” ^_^
[10:44] Peer Infinity still has the “red vs blue” series theme song stuck in my head…
[10:44] Rhiannon Dragoone: Seren, then did you get on the ground, kicking and screaming? Sometimes that works
[10:45] Rhiannon Dragoone: Seren, love the way my prgram said yu gave me Fulfillment. I’ve always wanted to be fulfilled
[10:45] You: Here is an example of MadMan strategy going horribly wrong >> http://www.spike.com/video/pimp-vs-karate/2696515
[10:45] Serendipity Seraph: *grins* anything to be of service.
[10:46] Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, really appreciate it, Seren; now i know i’m not just the entertaiment to you. ::grins::
[10:46] Milton Broome: Back at 12.30. See you all then hopefully.
[10:46] Khannea Suntzu loves fulfilling Rhiannon
[10:46] You: Cool Milton :))
[10:46] Rhiannon Dragoone: Khannea, thanks, but i’ll pass on the dildo
[10:46] Jeff Trapdoor is Online
[10:46] You: Ok
[10:46] Rhiannon Dragoone declined your inventory offer.
[10:46] TimeRefresh Irelund: thank you all, for inviting me to open my mind, i will go now, take care – in all things.
[10:46] Rhiannon Dragoone: I do have a remote congtrolled vibrator we can discuss, though
[10:46] You: 1230 peeps
[10:46] Giulio: Going, bye
[10:46] Rhiannon Dragoone: Time, thanks for coming!
[10:47] TimeRefresh Irelund: i sound like frikin mr,.spock.
[10:47] Giulio: Listen to me and consider the options that ALIENS did 911
[10:47] Rhiannon Dragoone: Time, live long and prosper
[10:47] Naxos Mycron: yeah, i`m leaving too for a while, see you laters! need to go !
[10:47] TimeRefresh Irelund: ^^
[10:47] Naxos Mycron: lol Giulio !
[10:47] Naxos Mycron: haha
[10:47] Naxos Mycron: bye bye !